ArtGyro hosted its second open forum on Saturday, 18 February at the ArtGyro meeting kiva at the LEA sim. The subject was the cost of making, buying, selling, and owning art in SL. As usual the conversation was broad, but a few key elements took focus:
- Except for nonprofits who experienced the price rise a couple years ago, we have all been living for a long time with basically the same costs, but for some reason it has seemed more oppressive in recent months with several important arts entities failing or re-inventing themselves. This may be the result of the global economic troubles, but may also be due in part to land owners suffering tier fatigue as they realize how many thousands of real dollars they’ve spent.
- Few people understand how much it costs in sim tier to have objects rezzed inworld.
- The artist/gallery relationship is often seen as adversarial rather than cooperative. It’s important for all parties to understand and communicate what they are bringing to the table. (How many galleries have written contracts spelling out what each party provides to the relationship?)
- There are ways to economize on prim costs (esp. intelligent use of rezzers to use the same space and prims for multiple installations.)
- Strategic relationships can help leverage limited resources. Jo Ellsmere suggested the Odyssey business model as a sustainable example in which the resident artists pay a sort of subscription to use the resources cooperatively. It was also suggested a similar model might be used for a gallery in which the exhibiting artists pay the costs. FreeWee described the hybrid residential model at Artemisia in which paying residents got designated parcels/prims, but also shared common resources.
- Gridhopping seems to be the way of the future as OpenSim grids become more stable and Hypergrid enabled. Artitsts are using OpenSims to create and SL to show. Sowa used the analogy of NY galleries that created cultural centers in affordable neighborhoods which then became gentrified, causing the galleries to move to other areas.
Meeting transcript
In attendance:
- Banrion Constantine
- Jo Ellsmere
- ThinkererSelby Evans (Thinkerer Melville)
- Justine Rhapsody
- Zachh Cale
- claudia222 Jewell
- FreeWee Ling
- Secret Rage
- Uri Young
- Mikati Slade
[08:07] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): http://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2010/11/save-prims-and-space-rezzers-and.html
[08:07] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): suggested for consideration
[08:08] FreeWee Ling: What is your thinking about this, Thinker? 
[08:09] FreeWee Ling: Welcome to ArtGyro everyone! Let’s get started.
[08:09] FreeWee Ling: Please use text chat to talk. This is a public forum. Without objection, the chat log will be published on the ArtGyro website.
[08:09] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): holodecks can reduce the cost of dislay
[08:10] FreeWee Ling: Good point.
[08:10] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): by allowing multiple displays in the same space
[08:10] FreeWee Ling: Rezzers can be an economical way to show art, especially that has a lot of prims.
[08:11] Secret Rage: yes good conservation
[08:11] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I have 20 builds on my island — each uses 1/9th of the island — the same 1/9th
[08:12] FreeWee Ling: Excellent. You use Rez Faux or some other?
[08:12] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): a build is rezzed by clicking on a box
[08:12] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I use horizon –
[08:12] FreeWee Ling: There’s also the free Holo-Rezzer that’s been around for years.
[08:13] FreeWee Ling: Please look at the questions on the boards. This is an open discussion that will be determined by your concerns.
[08:13] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): have automatic bulld also — you go to the spot and the build rezzes around you
[08:14] FreeWee Ling: As a starting point I also recommend you look at the ArtGyro website. There’s a list of fixed costs of prims there. http://artgyro.org/
[08:14] FreeWee Ling: In US dollars per month:
Full sim tier: $295.00
Full sim prims: 15000
Exchange rate: L$ 244.22 = US$ 1.00 (Lindex 14 Feb 2012)
The cost of one Linden is approx $0.004
Cost of one prim: $0.019666 (just under 2 cents)
Cost of one prim: 2.08 Lindens
[08:15] FreeWee Ling: Do people in your experience understand how much it costs for objects to exist here?
[08:15] Sowa Mai: no
[08:15] Sowa Mai: I didnt
[08:15] Jo Ellsmere: No, not a bit, imo
[08:15] Sowa Mai: till i read this
[08:15] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I own 3 sims — yes I know
[08:15] Jo Ellsmere: I certainly did not
[08:16] Secret Rage: i dont really think in terms of per prim, i guess
[08:16] FreeWee Ling: Well, the cost is paid whether the prims are used or not.
[08:16] Jo Ellsmere: No, I never have, either
[08:16] Secret Rage: right
[08:17] Zachh (zachh.cale): yes good point FreeWee, you pay whether you use the prims or not, so you need to always foot that cost, and plan for the full amount
[08:17] FreeWee Ling: So any unused prims are a waste. The per prim cost is higher the fewer you use.
[08:17] Secret Rage: no worries there…my home sim is always almost at capacity
[08:17] Secret Rage: <<<< hog
[08:18] Secret Rage:
[08:18] FreeWee Ling: When put in context of trying to sell a 3D object with a lot of prims, the cost can be significant.
[08:18] Jo Ellsmere: I’m not sure I see that as a ‘waste’ exactly. How is that different than any other art medium kept on hand?
[08:18] Secret Rage: well true Jo
[08:18] Secret Rage: like paints for instance
[08:18] Jo Ellsmere: yes, exactly
[08:18] FreeWee Ling: Most art media are supplies that are used once
[08:18] Sowa Mai: maintenance of rl painting, sculpture
[08:18] Jo Ellsmere: any materials
[08:18] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): There are indirect costs for scripts — too many lag the sim
[08:18] Zachh (zachh.cale): yes and sometimes you can’t use every prim, depending on the texture or prim lag of each exhibit
[08:18] Zachh (zachh.cale): or script lag
[08:19] FreeWee Ling: Here, you have to remove prims in order to reuse the same resource
[08:19] Banrion Constantine: .05, .06, or .085 cents per prim for mainland depending on what premium membership you buy. Sorry, took me a few minutes to do the math
[08:19] Jo Ellsmere: sometimes you simply don’t need to use every prim
[08:19] Jo Ellsmere: but they’re there if needed
[08:19] Zachh (zachh.cale): so even though you can use every prim, it’s not practical if the lag produced is so great , no one can visit
[08:19] Jo Ellsmere: very true
[08:19] Banrion Constantine: Good point Zachh
[08:19] FreeWee Ling: These numbers assume you are not paying a renter’s premium to a landlord.
[08:20] FreeWee Ling: Right. These are base numbers. Not to be assumed to have that much significance per se.
[08:20] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): with a holodeck my cost per prim is much smaller that those numbers
[08:20] FreeWee Ling: But to make us aware that the cost of resources here is significant.
[08:20] Zachh (zachh.cale): ty yes
[08:20] FreeWee Ling: Yes.
[08:21] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): they are not all out at once– only when peple are there wanting them
[08:21] FreeWee Ling: If you sell flat pictures — a texture on a prim — the cost is minimal. But if you make something complex it adds up.
[08:22] FreeWee Ling: And the cost is per month. It’s relentless. If you want to see it, it’ll cost you
[08:22] Zachh (zachh.cale): yes and if you buy a mesh object and resize it larger, it might cost a lot more prims
[08:22] FreeWee Ling: Indeed. And that’s the trend.
[08:23] FreeWee Ling: A lot of people use sandboxes.. Unless yo’re on a Linden sandbox, someone is paying tier for you to be able to work.
[08:24] FreeWee Ling: Do people often even know who is paying for the space?
[08:24] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): That is right– I own and pay for a sandbox on Hobo Island
[08:24] Zachh (zachh.cale): that’s very generous of you Thinkerer!
[08:24] Banrion Constantine: Depends on the person
[08:24] FreeWee Ling: What is your experience?
[08:24] Banrion Constantine: Yeah, I love Hobo. But I always seem to get in trouble there. lol
[08:24] FreeWee Ling: heehee
[08:24] Zachh (zachh.cale): lol Banrion what kind of trouble
[08:25] Zachh (zachh.cale): googles
[08:25] Banrion Constantine: dunno. was banned once long time ago
[08:25] Zachh (zachh.cale): ohhhh
[08:25] Banrion Constantine: and had a talking to last time lol
[08:25] Banrion Constantine: Im really good, I swear!
[08:25] Zachh (zachh.cale): haha
[08:25] Banrion Constantine: Only place I’ve ever been banned from!
[08:26] FreeWee Ling: Maybe someone was into alliteration. Just wanted to be able to say they could ban Ban.
[08:26] Banrion Constantine: hahah maybe.
[08:26] Secret Rage:
[08:26] FreeWee Ling: When you work in a sandbox, do you know who’s paying for it?
[08:27] Zachh (zachh.cale): that’s interesting because there are hidden costs in managing these prims, like making sure that griefers (not banrion!) are not impeding the use of those prims, which defeats the whole purpose. We spend time and sometimes pay others for effort maintaining the peace around the prims
[08:27] Banrion Constantine: I usually pay attention, yes. And donate what I can if there’s a donation hat out
[08:27] Banrion Constantine: (thanks)
[08:28] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): There are some Hobos that keep the peace and Hobo Island –
[08:28] Secret Rage: I have in the past been the caretaker for my landlords sandbox…and yes, there are costs
[08:28] Banrion Constantine: That’s true, Zachh. Disruption can be construed as financial loss. Never thought of it like that.
[08:29] FreeWee Ling: How about galleries? What about the relationships between the gallery owner and the artist? Do you think artists understand the investments made by the gallery owners?
[08:29] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): baggz Yue is the one to contact if you are banned
[08:29] Banrion Constantine: Yeah. He unbanned me, I think. lol
[08:29] Banrion Constantine: I can go there now anyway. lol
[08:29] Zachh (zachh.cale): hehe
[08:30] Jo Ellsmere: Many artists probably don’t understand those gallery costs
[08:30] Zachh (zachh.cale): that’s a good question freewee
[08:30] Sowa Mai: Alot of artists I have met seem to think the gallery owner owes them something
[08:30] Jo Ellsmere: not too specifically, anyway
[08:30] Sowa Mai: they project their parent issues on to the dealers
[08:30] Zachh (zachh.cale): haha Sowa
[08:31] FreeWee Ling: I’ve talked with gallery owners who say artists think they’re being taken advantage of. I think the reality is that art sales rarely cover even the basic prim costs.
[08:31] Sowa Mai: running a gallery is a labor of love as is creating art
[08:31] Secret Rage: agreed
[08:31] Jo Ellsmere: in SL specifically?
[08:31] Jo Ellsmere: or in general?
[08:32] FreeWee Ling: Yes in SL.
[08:32] Sowa Mai: I am talking generally
[08:32] Uri Young: so what do you think is the best way to make money in SL?
[08:32] Sowa Mai: pole dancing
[08:32] Zachh (zachh.cale): Is it the gallery or artspace owner’s job to communicate costs to the artist? Is that walking on thin ice?
[08:32] Secret Rage: lmao
[08:32] Zachh (zachh.cale): lol sowa!
[08:32] Zachh (zachh.cale): he’s right
[08:32] Banrion Constantine: Personally, I think if you’re in SL to make money as an artist, besides trying to cover expenses –
[08:32] FreeWee Ling: I think it is the responsibility if all parties to understand the relationship.
[08:33] Banrion Constantine: pole dancing should be your side job yes
[08:33] Banrion Constantine: lol
[08:33] Secret Rage:
[08:33] Uri Young: i don’t know
[08:33] FreeWee Ling: There are over 500 galleries in SL. How many do you think are covering their costs in commissions?
[08:33] Zachh (zachh.cale): it’s great if artist and artspace support each other, and that might depend on a level of trust, trust earned or trust assumed
[08:33] Jo Ellsmere: probably very few or none, I should think
[08:33] Banrion Constantine: communication is important. people don’t really talk about stuff in SL — especially if it’s not all sunshine and rainbows
[08:34] Zachh (zachh.cale): well total economy is down
[08:34] Secret Rage: as it is worldwide rl
[08:34] Zachh (zachh.cale): people have to prioritize
[08:34] Sowa Mai: maybe the artist when joining a sl gallery could be incorporated in to the group who’s responsibility includes sharing tier
[08:34] Zachh (zachh.cale): prioritize their expendable income
[08:35] FreeWee Ling: That’s an interesting idea Ban. Like an artists’ cooperative?
[08:35] Zachh (zachh.cale): interesting idea!
[08:35] Jo Ellsmere: That’s what we’ve done on Odyssey sim
[08:35] Jo Ellsmere: it’s completely artist supported at this point
[08:35] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): good idea –
[08:35] Banrion Constantine: Yeah, Sowa. Good idea.
[08:35] Sowa Mai: makes sense
[08:35] Zachh (zachh.cale): Jo, can you talk more about that, how does it work with expenses
[08:36] Jo Ellsmere: Well, we’re always interested in donations and fundraising, of course
[08:36] Secret Rage: well especially if a permanent member/showing work there
[08:36] Jo Ellsmere: but we have a core group of permanent ‘sponsors’
[08:36] Zachh (zachh.cale): ahhh ok that helps
[08:36] Jo Ellsmere: well, permanent is maybe too strong a word
[08:36] Jo Ellsmere: committed
[08:36] Uri Young: what’s in it for the sponsors
[08:36] FreeWee Ling: I’ve done that at Artemisia in the past, too. I had residents who shared the cost. It was a residential arrangement. We shared the common areas — natural spaces, a main gallery, etc.
[08:36] Secret Rage: nods
[08:36] Jo Ellsmere: the sponsors have free use of the sim
[08:37] Jo Ellsmere: and any technical support that’s available
[08:37] Zachh (zachh.cale): sponsors can rez anytime?
[08:37] Jo Ellsmere: display and performance space, etc
[08:37] Jo Ellsmere: yes
[08:37] Jo Ellsmere: anytime
[08:37] Jo Ellsmere: but
[08:37] Zachh (zachh.cale): wow
[08:37] Uri Young: interesting
[08:37] Secret Rage: must step away rl a moment
[08:37] Secret Rage will be right back.
[08:37] Jo Ellsmere: available prims are often an issue as one might imagine
[08:37] Zachh (zachh.cale): ok secret!
[08:37] FreeWee Ling: In my case people had designated parcels, but also shared the common resources.
[08:37] Jo Ellsmere: that must be watched carefully
[08:37] Uri Young: and how much would they have to be donating to be entitled to such privilages
[08:38] Zachh (zachh.cale): how do you manage the composition of the sim? Is it ever an issue that it starts looking more like sandbox than art sim
[08:38] Jo Ellsmere: at the moment we have a group who have committed to donating $20 US per month
[08:38] Banrion Constantine: That seems reasonable to me.
[08:38] Jo Ellsmere: that covers tier with a small cushion
[08:38] Jo Ellsmere: but
[08:38] FreeWee Ling: So you need at least 15 of those to cover tier
[08:39] Jo Ellsmere: just because people have verbally committed their support does not mean that everyone always follows through, unfortunately
[08:39] Jo Ellsmere: yes. 15 is the magic number
[08:39] Jo Ellsmere: so…it’s been wise to plan for a small cushion of funds
[08:39] Mikati Slade: hello everyone, can i have a seat?
[08:39] claudia222 Jewell: hi nutron
[08:39] Zachh (zachh.cale): Hi MIkati!
[08:39] Jo Ellsmere: that’s where fundraising and donations come in
[08:39] claudia222 Jewell: hi mikati
[08:39] FreeWee Ling: Welcome Mikati
[08:39] Banrion Constantine: Hi Mikati. I don’t know. we’re a bit crowded here.
[08:39] Jo Ellsmere: Mikati
[08:39] Banrion Constantine:
[08:40] Mikati Slade: sorry bother you
[08:40] Mikati Slade: prease continue
[08:40] Secret Rage: am back
[08:40] Uri Young: so why is your tier costs so high?
[08:40] Jo Ellsmere: on Odyssey?
[08:41] FreeWee Ling: So that’s an interesting model, Jo. Do you think that would work elsewhere? Or does it depend on a close-knit comunity?
[08:41] Jo Ellsmere: or generically?
[08:41] Jo Ellsmere: I think it would work elsewhere
[08:41] Jo Ellsmere: I feel that this is a viable model
[08:41] FreeWee Ling: A sim costs $295/month US Uri.
[08:41] Sowa Mai: it involves being social which is a minefield
[08:41] Jo Ellsmere: unlike the random begging for funds that I’ve seen other groups engage in
[08:41] Sowa Mai: one worth travelling though
[08:41] Banrion Constantine: so you say.
[08:41] Uri Young: thats a high price
[08:42] Jo Ellsmere: When Odyssey’s original sponsor decided to quit we were all scrambling to find a way to survive
[08:42] FreeWee Ling: I think the cooperative idea is good if people can get along. Are there problems sharing resources? Do people have limits?
[08:42] Jo Ellsmere: LLs was unmoved, shall we say, by our pleading 
[08:42] Zachh (zachh.cale): Odyssey is one of my favorite art sims
[08:43] Sowa Mai: maybe it could be compared to showing in Manhattan and creating in a studio in Jersey
[08:43] Jo Ellsmere: so far there haven’t been any big issues
[08:43] Jo Ellsmere: when there have been high-prim projects in the works, people have been cooperative
[08:43] Jo Ellsmere: everyone understand, I think, that cooperation is the key
[08:43] Zachh (zachh.cale): yes that is key
[08:43] Zachh (zachh.cale): depends on cohesiveness of the group
[08:44] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): can also cooperate to build traffic
[08:44] Zachh (zachh.cale): people make it happen, and sounds like odyssey has good people
[08:44] Jo Ellsmere: yes, that’s true. That is an issue that must be addressed before and while ‘collecting’ sponsors
[08:44] Jo Ellsmere: Odyssey has very good people!
[08:44] Jo Ellsmere: )
[08:44] Zachh (zachh.cale):
[08:44] FreeWee Ling: The usual model for space in SL is that you pay a price for a given number of meters/prims. You get a defined parcel. It’s a paradigm shift for people to think more cooperatively.
[08:45] Jo Ellsmere: considering that costs are only going up…I think that’s a very viable model
[08:45] FreeWee Ling: I think Odyssey is an amazing group. I can’t help wondering if trying to replicate the model would go as well.
[08:45] Jo Ellsmere: I sincerely feel that more groups would have greater success if they
[08:46] Banrion Constantine: It all depends on the personalities involved I think
[08:46] Banrion Constantine: I think it’s feasible.
[08:46] Zachh (zachh.cale): agrees!
[08:46] Banrion Constantine: But possibly bumpy lol
[08:46] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): It won’t work every time — but it will work some of the times
[08:46] FreeWee Ling: I agree, Jo. It’s why I started the ArtGyro project, in fact. I’m trying to get people to start thinking about leveraging their resources through cooperative relationships.
[08:47] Jo Ellsmere: I think that’s the wave of future, honestly
[08:47] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): I really like that idea
[08:47] Jo Ellsmere: the costs have gotten so high
[08:47] Sowa Mai: yes
[08:47] Jo Ellsmere: that and OS, perhaps
[08:48] FreeWee Ling: The cost are out of control. In order for people to survive I think we have to get out of the prims/meters/Lindens box model.
[08:48] Sowa Mai: OS to create SL to show
[08:48] Jo Ellsmere: yes
[08:48] Jo Ellsmere: I am in several OS grids
[08:48] FreeWee Ling: Yes a lot of people are doing that.
[08:48] Jo Ellsmere: they’re great places to experiment
[08:48] Jo Ellsmere: sometimes a bit lonely, though
[08:49] FreeWee Ling: I just went to an interview with Maria Korolov. Hypergrid Business.
[08:49] FreeWee Ling: There have been recent developments in OS that are exciting.
[08:49] Sowa Mai: SL is the commercial hub of virtual world
[08:50] FreeWee Ling: She thinks LL is going to have to do something about pricing to remain competitive.
[08:50] Jo Ellsmere: I think OS is really the future. Away from the corporate model and towards individuals
[08:50] Banrion Constantine: I hope so.
[08:50] Sowa Mai: in RL artists discover an area, rehab it, and then are priced out by galleries and shops
[08:50] Sowa Mai: so we move on
[08:50] FreeWee Ling: When was the last time LL made an intelligent business decision to benefit users?
[08:50] Zachh (zachh.cale): well if OS lowers expenses, does it also lower the critical mass of people?
[08:51] Jo Ellsmere: critical mass of people in OS is low compared with SL. No denying that
[08:52] Sowa Mai: i think the user SL caters too is no longer the artist but the store owner and the well practiced consumer
[08:52] Jo Ellsmere: agreed Sowa
[08:52] Banrion Constantine hides the feed bag.
[08:53] Sowa Mai: all decisions are aimed there
[08:53] Jo Ellsmere: where the money is
[08:53] Banrion Constantine: yes exactly.
[08:53] Zachh (zachh.cale): could be Sowa – SL is private entity in business to make money
[08:53] Sowa Mai: it is a viable business model for them and we just have to deal with that
[08:53] Zachh (zachh.cale): although they do promote art exhibits on destination to attract and keep people interested
[08:54] Zachh (zachh.cale): it’s not a direct revenue
[08:54] Zachh (zachh.cale): but it’s an influential consumer based strategy
[08:54] Sowa Mai: if we can set up a small gallery, build in OS and share costs of exhibiting we are following in the footsteps of more than a few artist coops in Soho who moved to Chelsea
[08:54] Zachh (zachh.cale): marketing
[08:54] Zachh (zachh.cale): sounds intriguing
[08:55] Sowa Mai: If I run out of blue paint i can use red, no problem
[08:55] Zachh (zachh.cale): lol
[08:55] Banrion Constantine: flexibility and an open mind.
[08:55] FreeWee Ling: There are tons of artist in OS
[08:56] Sowa Mai: maybe one OS grid will develop in to a community
[08:56] Sowa Mai: then it’ll get really popular and someone will buy it
[08:56] FreeWee Ling: Many peoplle are in multiple grids and I think that’s how it’s going to be. Hypergrid is now part of the basic install for OS.
[08:56] Sowa Mai: and we will have to move again
[08:56] Zachh (zachh.cale): how much is a sim in OS
[08:56] Uri Young: at the end of the day, whilst we all want to make art for beauty there needs to be a source of income, other than donators wanting to use the sim is there not a way we could sell art more commercially
[08:56] FreeWee Ling: You can host an OS grid for free on your own computer.
[08:57] FreeWee Ling: InWorldz is an offshoot of OS.
[08:57] Zachh (zachh.cale): ok – well how do you get people to know about it
[08:57] FreeWee Ling: As are many others.
[08:57] Zachh (zachh.cale): how do you “connect” it
[08:57] Uri Young: sorry for my ignorance, whats os?
[08:57] Jo Ellsmere: I own a sim in Craft grid which costs 18 Euros for two months
[08:57] claudia222 Jewell: open sim
[08:57] Jo Ellsmere: full sim, 15000 prims
[08:57] Uri Young: thank you
[08:57] Zachh (zachh.cale): nice
[08:57] FreeWee Ling: You hook them together. (OS=OpenSim. The basic platform developed by LL, but is open source)
[08:58] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): http://virtualoutworlding.blogspot.com/2011/11/stech-spoton3d-first-20-minutes-in-3d.html
[08:58] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): see that blog post
[08:58] Zachh (zachh.cale): is there a central map you can look up all os sims?
[08:58] Zachh (zachh.cale): ok ty thinkerer
[08:58] FreeWee Ling: Get a sim in Inworldz I think it’s like 45K prims? $70/month?
[08:58] Jo Ellsmere: yes, something like that, I think
[08:58] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): SRY — I hveto go now — good discussion
[08:59] ThinkererSelby Evans (thinkerer.melville): bye all
[08:59] Secret Rage: waves
[08:59] Jo Ellsmere: bye Thinkerer
[08:59] Zachh (zachh.cale): bye Thinkerer
[08:59] claudia222 Jewell: bye thinkerer
[08:59] FreeWee Ling: SpotOn3D is NOT a good example. of OS
[08:59] Sowa Mai: yes me too, we set up an opportunity for folk to come participate in our LEA build starting now
[09:00] Jo Ellsmere: There is a grid that was started by artists for artists: NGrid
[09:00] Jo Ellsmere: let me grab the link
[09:00] Zachh (zachh.cale): ok
[09:00] FreeWee Ling: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/
[09:00] FreeWee Ling: www.hyperica.com
[09:01] FreeWee Ling: Directory of opensims
[09:02] FreeWee Ling: So there are options. SL is still by far the best if you need physics and you want a global audience.
[09:02] FreeWee Ling: But is it 4 times better than InWorldz? Infinitely better than your own OS?
[09:03] Zachh (zachh.cale): I have to go – thanks again for this discussion Freewee and everyone!
[09:03] Jo Ellsmere: http://ngrid.org/
[09:03] Banrion Constantine: Quick interjection. Sowa had to leave to take care of our show at 9 here at LEA. http://lindenarts.blogspot.com/2012/02/aequitas-field-of-view-project.html If anyone wants to drop by and add their textures.
[09:03] Jo Ellsmere: sorry…took me a moment to find it
[09:04] Banrion Constantine: Bye, Zachh
[09:04] FreeWee Ling: I think the point is to look at options and so on where we can work together to find synergies.
[09:04] Jo Ellsmere: And there are options
[09:04] Secret Rage: smiles mine is next door at 7
[09:04] Banrion Constantine: cool.
[09:05] FreeWee Ling: Yay. OK. Thank you all. I’ll try to distill this and get it on the website.
[09:05] Jo Ellsmere: thanks FreeWee
[09:05] Secret Rage: smiles
[09:05] Secret Rage: good to see u all
[09:06] FreeWee Ling: More discussions to come. We’ll be talking about intellectual property issues, legacy, etc.
